Friday, February 06, 2009

Separating the sheep from the sheep

The Assembling of the Church: Separating the sheep from the sheep

Alan Knox reprinted a older post and raises the question of why we spend so much time separating the sheep from the sheep. An awful lot of our time and energy goes into dividing the church. Even the schedule does this to an extent. If you go to church A and they have services at the same time as every other church in town, by necessity you are going to be excluding from fellowship everyone who goes anywhere else. We get compartmentalized into the circle of people we "go to church" with to the exclusion of others. A big problem with this is that a lot of the people we "go to church" with are not Christians, so we are excluding other Christians from fellowship and replacing them with unbelievers.

The questions raised though bring another point of concern for me. What do we do about doctrine and theology? Christianity is a relational faith, relational in the sense of relationships with one another and most importantly with Christ. But it is also a deeply doctrinal faith, a faith of truth propositions, of clear cut doctrines that are true and teachings that are false. I fellowshipped in a home a few weeks ago with a man and his family, and he seemed like a genuine believer but he held to Arminiainism to the point of having every Charles Finney book in print on his bookshelf. While I look at this brother and believe that he is a sincere believer, the doctrines he holds to and the teachers he admires are not. The doctrines espoused by Charles Finney amount to "another Gospel". So for the sake of fellowship, do I reubke this brother for following false teachers? Or for the sake of truth do I reject fellowship with this brother?

My comment on Alan's blog is pasted below:

I agree that we need to spend less time dividing ourselves into sub-groups and spend more time in fellowship with one another. Some of our closest friends in Christ are people we have serious doctrinal disagreements with. But...

Where do we draw a line? What of a brother who is teaching something that is false? I am concerned that we not merely "go along to get along" The New Testament is replete with Paul correcting false teachings, not teachings outside of the Body but inside the Body and doing so strenously. We cannot leave Truth at the door as we seek fellowship with other believers.

What do you think? Where do we draw the line between fellowship and truth? Can we draw that line?

10 comments:

Bethany W. said...

Arthur,

You think that your friend believes "another gospel," because he is so staunchly Arminian. What must he think of you when he sees your library full of Reformed texts? I am sure that he thinks you are the one falling prey to false teaching.
I don't see how all Christians could reasonably worship together unless we leave out many books of the New Testament: lets start by throwing out Romans, James, and Hebrews. Then, so we do not upset any dispensational types, we can throw out the entire Old Testament - they don't need it anyway.
I cannot imagine how this could ever practically be done!

Bethany

Alan Knox said...

Arthur,

I was wondering the same thing that Bethany asked. I wonder if your friend would question your beliefs the way you questioned his... even though he would probably assume you were 'a sincere believer' as well.

This is how I responded to you questions on my blog:

Since you brought up Paul, I think we should look to him, and the other authors of Scripture, for examples. When did Paul separate from other believers? I think, if we examined what Scripture says about separating from brothers and sisters in Christ, we'll find that there are only a few reasons.

-Alan

Arthur Sido said...

Lets set separation aside. What of fellowship? In what was do fellow believers, one who believes in infant baptism and one who believes in believers baptism, fellowship together? I would not baptize an infant under any circumstances, so if a paedobaptist believers were fellowshipping with a group of credobaptists, how do you reconcilee that? What about teaching where one man teaches that man is capable and indeed initiates his own salvation made posssible by the cros and one man holds to the doctrines of grace?

These are serious doctrinal issues that are not easily dismissed. So we either gloss over truths or we don't fellowship together. Is there a third way I am not seeing?

James said...

I fellowship with you Arthur, and you are clearly a heretic...

hah

Arthur Sido said...

My only heresy is fellowshipping with you brother.

Alan Knox said...

Arthur,

How are you distinguishing separation from refusing to fellowship? They seem like the same thing to me.

Our unity and fellowship is not found in our doctrine, but in a person.

-Alan

Arthur Sido said...

Alan,

A lot of people claim the name of Christ. Mormons claim to follow Jesus. Gene Robinson, "bishop" of New Hampshire for the Episcopal Church claims to follow Jesus. Benny Hinn claims to follow Jesus. Shouldn't we discern something between these men and brothers? There are many things that divide us, some are unreasonable but others are not.

"Our unity and fellowship is not found in our doctrine, but in a person."

I would say that is only partly true. We are unified in Christ but what unifies us is not merely saying "I love Jesus" but a common confession, the truths that bind us as a people of God. I would not wish to forsake, or even to compromise, the truth for the sake of fellowship. The very earliest days of the church saw the brothers:

(Act 2:42) And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

How can we fellowship if we strenously disagree over what the Apostles teachings are? Where do we draw the line?

Alan Knox said...

Arthur,

Being "in Christ" - which, I state again, is the ONLY source of our fellowship or unity - is not that same as saying "I love Christ" or even of claiming Christ.

Whenever this question about fellowship and unity comes up, people bring up Mormons or JW's or even Muslims or other religions. I'm only concerned with those who are "in Christ" - that is, those who are my brothers and sisters. Our relationship with one another does not depend upon what I believe or you believe or what they believe. Instead, our relationship is found ONLY in the person of Jesus Christ.

I noticed that you didn't return to Paul's example. Paul disagreed strongly with many in Corinth and Galatia... but he considered them all "brothers and sisters" and he maintained fellowship with them, all the while helping them grow toward a better understanding of God, Jesus, the Spirit, and themselves.

-Alan

Bethany W. said...

Arthur,

I can definitely say that I would/could/and do fellowship with people who think very differently than I do on some major issues. (I am married to a paedobaptist you know...)

For example, many people who are Reformed have family members who are not at all of that persuasion. We cannot write them off!
And, many Christians participate in Homeschool Associations, but that does not make them ecumenical.

I am not saying that we need to compartmentalize our lives in such a way that we do not mix our beliefs into everything we do... but, I think we ought to be able to spend time with other genuine believers without arguing.

So, I can fellowship with people who disagree with me - and have a good time, but I do not necessarily want to go to church with them on Sunday.

Bethany

Arthur Sido said...

Alan, I haven't had time to fully address what you wrote, we are in the midst of moving the ten of us. I will try to give it more attention because I think you are missing the point of what I am trying to say.