So where is this all going?
Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know...
Should I Stay or Should I Go? - The Clash
What is up with the meandering, sometimes smarmy, sometimes angry, sometimes resigned ramblings of late on this here blog?
Weary but wary
Fortunately my wife and my children are very flexible and adaptable, so they are being pretty understanding through all of this. I have grown increasingly weary of the institutional church, but remain somewhat wary of the house church. I need to think , study and especially pray my way through a lot of this stuff that is rattling around.
Institutional versus house?
If we recognize that the institutional church as it exists and has existed for hundreds of years and all of American history is not a Biblical model but instead is a cultural model does that mean we must reject it in total? Burn the whole thing to the ground?
I have concerns about the all or nothing model. It can sometimes seem that there are two factions that have drawn lines, planted flags and declared victory. “The house church people are heretic and have abandoned the historical fellowship of the saints, rejected the authority structure of the New Testament church and the proper ecclesiastical structure”. Or “The steeple house people are clinging to a cultural Christianity. It is in the house church that true Biblical worship and gathering of the saints is found, not in programmatic institutional Churchianity”. Both of these extremes seem a bit off. Not that one or the other is not the proper mode of worship. One has the benefit of the Biblical example of house worship. One has the full weight of centuries of church traditions.
Is a hybrid possible? A small church that meets on Sunday for worship, teaching, preaching led by the men of the church? Frequent and meaningful fellowship in the homes of believers or other communal activities?
Ecclesiology versus soteriology?
I am trying to be cautious so that in my looking askance at the institutional church I don’t fall into the trap of throwing the theological baby out with the institutional bathwater. I am and pretty much always have been a “T”ruth kind of guy. Properly gathering together is important, proper worship is important but it should not be at odds with the great theological truths of the Bible.
Can you be Reformed in soteriology and yet question the validity of the institutional church? Many would say no. For many in the Reformed camp, the visible church IS the church and the legitimate church cannot be found outside of the visible church. That is where the Word is rightly preached and the ordinances are rightly administered.Reformed theology is inextricably linked to classic Reformed ecclesiology. But it doesn’t seem to me that there is a contradiction between a high view of the sovereignty of God, especially in salvation or holding to the Five Solas and yet questioning the validity of the institutional church. While some, perhaps many, have strayed that way, it is not an inevitability.
Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An' if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know...
Should I Stay or Should I Go? - The Clash
What is up with the meandering, sometimes smarmy, sometimes angry, sometimes resigned ramblings of late on this here blog?
Weary but wary
Fortunately my wife and my children are very flexible and adaptable, so they are being pretty understanding through all of this. I have grown increasingly weary of the institutional church, but remain somewhat wary of the house church. I need to think , study and especially pray my way through a lot of this stuff that is rattling around.
Institutional versus house?
If we recognize that the institutional church as it exists and has existed for hundreds of years and all of American history is not a Biblical model but instead is a cultural model does that mean we must reject it in total? Burn the whole thing to the ground?
I have concerns about the all or nothing model. It can sometimes seem that there are two factions that have drawn lines, planted flags and declared victory. “The house church people are heretic and have abandoned the historical fellowship of the saints, rejected the authority structure of the New Testament church and the proper ecclesiastical structure”. Or “The steeple house people are clinging to a cultural Christianity. It is in the house church that true Biblical worship and gathering of the saints is found, not in programmatic institutional Churchianity”. Both of these extremes seem a bit off. Not that one or the other is not the proper mode of worship. One has the benefit of the Biblical example of house worship. One has the full weight of centuries of church traditions.
Is a hybrid possible? A small church that meets on Sunday for worship, teaching, preaching led by the men of the church? Frequent and meaningful fellowship in the homes of believers or other communal activities?
Ecclesiology versus soteriology?
I am trying to be cautious so that in my looking askance at the institutional church I don’t fall into the trap of throwing the theological baby out with the institutional bathwater. I am and pretty much always have been a “T”ruth kind of guy. Properly gathering together is important, proper worship is important but it should not be at odds with the great theological truths of the Bible.
Can you be Reformed in soteriology and yet question the validity of the institutional church? Many would say no. For many in the Reformed camp, the visible church IS the church and the legitimate church cannot be found outside of the visible church. That is where the Word is rightly preached and the ordinances are rightly administered.Reformed theology is inextricably linked to classic Reformed ecclesiology. But it doesn’t seem to me that there is a contradiction between a high view of the sovereignty of God, especially in salvation or holding to the Five Solas and yet questioning the validity of the institutional church. While some, perhaps many, have strayed that way, it is not an inevitability.
5 comments:
Just curious if you have ever looked the "Plymouth Brethren"?
www.brethrenonline.org. Look through the FAQ for sure.
Steve and I grew up in the assemblies, as they call themselves.
Where we live now, there are no meetings like this, hence we are making do.
If you contact www.uplook.org, they can give you a list of meetings near you.
One thing the assemblies are noted for, is the plurality of brethren and the weekly Breaking of Bread.
Paula
Arthur,
You do well to examine these issues in light of Scripture. I encourage you, brother, for your sake and that of your family to make any necessary moves slowly.
Bethany
Arthur,
What is our ecclesiology is a direct reflection of our theology including our soteriology. I don't mean what we profess to believe, but what we actually believe. For example, what does modern, traditional ecclesiology demonstrate about our soteriology? Does it demonstrate that all who are accepted in Christ are part of God's family and therefore our family? What does it demonstrate about our pneumatology? Does it demonstrate that the Spirit is actually with us and active? Anyway, these are just a few questions that I've had to struggle with concerning the connection between ecclesiology and all those other -ologies.
-Alan
Paula,
Actually I have been looking at the Plymouth Brethren, there is a congregation nearby that I may check out this Sunday and there is one near the community we are relocating to. I have some questions about some of their theology but I like a lot of what I have read so far.
Alan,
There is an amazing ability many of us have in putting our -ologies into silos. Our ecclesiology is totally seperate from our soteriology which is seperate from our pneumatology which is seperate from our missiology. I have been as guilty as anyone of selecting certain -ologies like grocery shopping, picking one flavor of this -ology from the shelf and popping it in my cart and then going to the next aisle to get a different brand of that -ology without making the connection between the two. Definitely something I need to work on.
I will be curious to read what you think of them. Not in a bad way mind you...just curious.
We have some personal views that are keeping us from setting that exact pattern if we were to start a home meeting. But most of that is going to be coming from the specific meetings we attended.
Pharisee's is a word that comes to mind, but I have to remember, we all have a bit of that in each of us.
It is certainly a matter of finding believers of like will and mind, not one or the other.
I long for the day when I a not the only covered woman in whatever church we are in. But, I cannot go on a crusade and make it happen.
Gods will and timing if He so pleases.
Paula
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