I get that the Japanese government started the war
I get that the potential cost of a land invasion would have been horrific
It doesn't change the fact that tens of thousands of people were slaughtered in the blink of an eye and many, many more were maimed and poisoned, leading to their eventual death. Many if not most of them were women, children, the elderly and other non-combatants.
After the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, President Harry Truman addressed the nation and speaking of the atomic bomb said this:
It is an awful responsibility which has come to us. We thank God that it has come to us, instead of to our enemies; and we pray that He may guide us to use it in His ways and for His purposes.We thank God that the atomic bomb has come to us and that we are the only nation to ever use one on the infrastructure and civilians of our enemy? In which way and purpose would one ever use an atomic bomb?
Meanwhile some Christians in this country are outraged that the Air Force has halted the religious themed training of nuclear missile officers that invoked the name of Christ as theological cover to excuse their swearing to launch nuclear weapons at the command of their superiors.
Today Japan is the ally and trading partner of the United States. I wonder if America would be as forgiving to a foreign power that incinerated tens of thousands of our citizens?
10 comments:
Arthur,
You ask,"I wonder if America would be as forgiving to a foreign power that incinerated tens of thousands of our citizens?"
Of course they (and their allies) would if there was great financial gain in doing so!
If Americans ever take premeditated, merciless, horrific, blood thirsty, murder and rape action on the whole of Asia, then I think we might deserve an A bomb or two or worse. Yes, if we did what the Japanese did, then we should bless those who A bombed us.
Are you under the impression combatants are the only ones involved in perpetrating a war?
Just how many Japanese women and children do you think were not involved in making the war happen and encouraging it?
How innocent were they, really?
Are you aware of the extent to which the Japanese people were demonically deceived in their pursuits such that they would rather die than fail their task?
Thus we actually gave them what they wanted so that they would fail?
Are you aware how much this historic reality is white-washed by alleged anti-war progressives to accomplish their equally demonic goals of alleged/pretend peace for the anti-Christ to take power over the world?
Tim
That might be the looniest comment anyone has ever left here.
The civilians of Japan encouraged the war so they got what they had coming to them? Those devious Japanese school children, they secretly were secretly were war mongers every one of them! They were demonically deceived so we liberated them from that by nuking them!
Try putting down the American flag for a second and thinking about issues like a Christian.
Debbie
I certainly do not expect America to make Christ centered depicitions and certainly the atrocities of Japan and Nazi Germany are abhorrent. As I said, I think that as a secular nation America made the correct military decision in using the atomic bomb. My point was that America is a) hardly a nation with clean hands and b) that war is horrific and anti-Christ which is why the bloodlust of many Christians is so horrific.
Your quickness to play the loony card demonstrates a shallowness in your ability to interact with those who disagree with your views based on an understanding of history. You are capable of more truth than that. Are you not returning evil for your assumptions that my statements are incorrect?
Yes, Japanese "civilians" including children were active parts in making planes and bullets etc, - they believed the war should be done. Mothers taught this to their children. Their children participated. They were sending what we would consider children to the front to fight.
What is so hard for you to consider that this was a whole nation effort rooted in each family? Are you unaware of how deeply the cause of this war went to the core of each Japanese person's being - even their religion and worship?
Yes, the civilians of Japan encouraged the war so they got what they wanted - dying for the sake of honor to their God the emperor. It is total hypocrisy for those who survived to blame us when they were a part of the belief that it was an honor to die for their country.
"Those devious Japanese school children, they were secretly war mongers every one of them!"
"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child..." I'm not sure how you come up with innocent children, specially those raised in this kind of environment of extreme loyalty to a murderous culture.
"They were demonically deceived so we liberated them from that by nuking them!"
...we liberated them from killing even more people, millions across Asia, specially those who God commissioned to carry the sword to restore justice from many countries involved.
To take the nukes out of the whole context of what was happening - wag fingers at the US for it's analysis to do these final blows - is quite shallow thinking. The complete ruthlessness of the Japanese thinking drove this action.
Tim
I played "the loony card" because your comment (and this one) qualify as lunacy, at least from one who claims to follow Christ.
I am not even sure how to respond seriously to your assertions that Japanese children, even babies, who were incinerated in an indiscriminate nuclear got what they had coming to them. Even a proponent of "just war" would recognize (I would hope) that waging war in such an indiscriminate way inherently violates the principle of Jus in bello and is no different than the Nazis bombing London to try to force the submission of her government by terrorizing her citizens.
Your comment is not only loony and in poor taste, it brings shame on the name of Christ.
Here is one of those little enemies of America who got what they had coming to them:
http://www.life.com/gallery/27872/fallout-after-a-nuclear-attack#index/5
Now the shame on Christ card comes out because i don't agree with you.
"...is no different than the Nazis bombing London to try to force the submission of her government by terrorizing her citizens. "
The "moral equivalence" argument on two completely different kinds of decisions behind the actions is a play progressive liberals love to use. It is not accurate because one similarity (death) does not mean every other element of the situation was morally the same. (If you are against abortion you must also be against capital punishment since both end a life..and we ignore all the other differences in the situation).
One picture does not resolve anything. Even if you had 100 pictures of different babies. All those pictures are in a context, which you don't seem to get because you see one picture and have some passionate feelings and beliefs. There are many latin terms and scriptures to put on the table for and against our differences. You are welcome to hold only those that agree with yourself close to your heart. I disagree but I will not play any cards.
It appears to me you don't want to understand my points because your responses indicate you are not responding at all to my point, but alternate message you pick out of your head.
"So know I am a "progressive liberal" - I did not say you were one. I said you were using the same kind of bogus logic they continually use. Since your response is a warping of what I said, then I take it you are just ignoring what I did say.
"indiscriminate bombing of non-combatants" - There are more participants in a war then combatants. Do you think combatants are the only players?
"mass slaughter under the cover of might makes right" - No one ever has suggested "might makes right" as anything to do with this - only those who wish to smear with bogus arguments and insinuations. - Sliming
"your dehumanizing of children is shameful." - No one has ever suggested anyone killed was not human, adult or children. More bogus smear.
"You are ummoved by the sight of a burned child because of "context"? - False accusation again. What happened is very moving. Fortunately it moved the previously unmoved the Japanese to move and end their war efforts, combined with other things that were going on.
"There is no context for a follower of Christ where a child burned in war is acceptable."
Can you think of any times in the Bible where the death of non-combatant "innocent" children was acceptable to God?
"You seriously need to repent of the hatred and bloodlust that engulfs your heart."
I have not hatred or bloodlust engulfing my heart. I have probably been to Japan more times than you and have no hatred for them at all. The war is over. Repentance is complete. What is there to hate?
"The American flag doesn't trump the cross of Christ" - Many flags played a part in stopping the Japanese war machine. It matters little to me which flag took decisive action necessary to force the Japanese leaders to quit. All of them played key parts.
For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.
Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority?
Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
for he is God’s servant for your good.
But if you do wrong, be afraid
for he does not bear the sword (tank, gun, nuke) in vain.
For he is the servant of God,
an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.
Those who fought the Japanese were "servants of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer."
Have I exaggerated or misconstrued anything you have said to wage argument?
Tim
Your argument boils down to this: nuking women and children was OK because it ended a war.
Again I understand the military rationale for using atomic weapons. It made perfect sense from a self-interest standpoint. I also recognize the role of the sword in the hands of the secular ruler as an unknowing servant of God (unless you think Caesar recognized his role in God's eternal purpose). What you seem to misunderstand or ignore is that the sword is something wielded by the state, not by Christians. This is the danger inherent in reading the Bible in snippets and ignoring the point Paul is making as a continuation of Romans 12 when you read Romans 13.
"There is no context for a follower of Christ where a child burned in war is acceptable."
Can you think of any times in the Bible where the death of non-combatant "innocent" children was acceptable to God?
That is a ridiculous statement. Are you equating God commanding His people to conduct warfare as part of establishing a specific nation for a specific purpose with a decision made by the government of the United States? I assumed you knew the difference.
Honestly this conversation is getting less fruitful with each passing retort. If you wish to hold the views you do and you think that those views are in harmony with a follower of the Prince of Peace, that is your prerogative. It is my prerogative to no longer give you a forum for your comments that see human life as disposable in the name of the greater good as defined by the United States. I sincerely hope that God will grant you a spirit of repentance and a heart softened to the suffering of those wounded and murdered in the wars of man, even those who are on the "wrong" side.
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