Who are the proper subjects of baptism?
Another great baptism debate online, this time between Paul Manata and Gene Cook, Jr. (of The Narrow Mind radio program). Paul holds the paedobaptist position and Gene the credobaptist. I have only managed to listen to the first of three mp3’s, but this has been my favorite line so far (by Gene): “Baptism is the unreformed doctrine of the Reformation”
It is nice to listen to a debate like this, and like the James White-Bill Shishko debate earlier in the year, two Reformed guys, who hold to almost all of the same doctrines debating a vital issue without the acrimony that often accompanies this sort of stuff.
I of course think that so far, Gene is cleaning the floor with Paul. Gene’s intro puts Paul on the defensive automatically, and his intro seemed to be a rambling list of Scriptures from the Old Testament that really have little or nothing to do with baptism and the New Covenant. I am looking forward to listening to the rest in my “spare time”!
It is nice to listen to a debate like this, and like the James White-Bill Shishko debate earlier in the year, two Reformed guys, who hold to almost all of the same doctrines debating a vital issue without the acrimony that often accompanies this sort of stuff.
I of course think that so far, Gene is cleaning the floor with Paul. Gene’s intro puts Paul on the defensive automatically, and his intro seemed to be a rambling list of Scriptures from the Old Testament that really have little or nothing to do with baptism and the New Covenant. I am looking forward to listening to the rest in my “spare time”!
4 comments:
http://graceinthetriad.blogspot.com/2007/08/cook-vs-manata-slamma-down-show-down.html
Nice blog by the way...you give Steve Camp a run for his money on lengthy blogs :-)
wow, strange world. It's funny how we can be so different. I was actually at the debate, and Paul was not on the defensive the entire time. I actually thought Gene's opening was irrelevant to the argument Paul put forth. Besides, if you listen to the rest of the debate, Manata controlled every aspect of it. But, hey, to each his own, right! Peace
Like I said, I haven't listened to the rest. A lot of people have said that Manata did very well, debate wise, later on. I am assuming that a lot of people base their debate results on their position going in. I think James White smoked Bill Shishko when they debated the same subject.
Ultimately though the test is not a debate in California, but the Word of God, and that plainly teaches us that those who are to be baptized are those who have come to faith in Christ, regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Arguments about the nature of the covenant, circumcision, the Lord's Supper all deflect from that. It is not considered a proper debate tactic, but the truth still remains: every single recipient of baptism in the New Testament is a believer first. There is conclusive proof of that. There is zero proof of any infant being baptized.
It is time to reform the practice of Baptism in the rest of the Reformed world. Five hundred years of knowingly baptizing unregenerate sinners is long enough!
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