tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post7517653710723212481..comments2023-06-09T12:46:12.932-04:00Comments on The Voice Of One Crying Out In Suburbia: Being Wrong About Being RightArthur Sidohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03848508095612688493noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-81936105246008221442015-04-13T11:53:59.177-04:002015-04-13T11:53:59.177-04:00Hi Arthur,
I saw your link from Dwight's Faceb...Hi Arthur,<br />I saw your link from Dwight's Facebook page. As a former "conservative" Mennonite turned "progressive" I find your comments interesting. Much of my academic work has focused on Mennonite spirituality an area that has had little research and is significantly different from Protestant or evangelical spirituality across all Mennonite groups.<br /><br />Your observation that conservative Anabaptists have "reversed the order" is insightful and true to my own research. It is not that Anabaptist-Mennonites don't believe in the Holy Spirit to the same degree that evangelicals do, but there is a difference. Mennonites come from an ascetic tradition that has more in common with Catholicism than Protestantism. Anabaptist-Mennonites definitely view ascetic practice as a way to bring change to the inner life. The outer life changes the inner life and that is why they emphasize outer conformity so much. In this regard they are monastic like and in fact all the early major Reformers accused Anabaptists of being "monkish". <br /><br />This is a kind of "sacramentality" in which God works through the ordinariness of the material reality to bring about inner conversion. A further example of this is the historic Anabaptist view that God is "really" present in the gathered community. Whereas the Catholic church views God as "really" present in the bread and wine, Mennonites have historically viewed Christ as present in the faithful community. Furthermore, God is working through humanity to bring about a total christlikeness, a change in one's being.<br /><br />All of this can/may seem unfathomable to an evangelical who has been taught from Luther on that the only way to change is though imputed righteousness. Luther's view assumes a very different anthropology than a Catholic or Mennonite one. In a Lutheran perspective humanity is only capable of being imputed or infused with righteousness; if I understand this right it means that the person is not necessarily righteous but God simply sees them as righteous. In traditional Anabaptist perspective humanity is being remade in being; people "really" change (sacramental - God works through the material and ordinariness of life) and grow into the likeness of Christ. One of the ways this happens is through ascetic reforming of the outer life to bring about a renewal of the inner life. This is based on nearly 1500 years of Christian theology and practice up to the Reformation when there was a rending of ways. Read the church fathers and mothers or the theologians and spiritual writers. This is also similar to the Eastern Christian tradition of theosis in which there is a divinization of humanity.<br /><br />Sorry - this is a rather long post and doesn't do justice to the topic - there is so much more to understand. Hopefully this might help to point to the reality that there are some fundamental differences between a Mennonite and evangelical view, though I have argued in other places that conservative Mennonites have been largely influenced by evangelicalism. Blessings on your spiritual journey!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360053838763503245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-54399171052141269102015-04-12T22:15:15.671-04:002015-04-12T22:15:15.671-04:00As one of the more conservative in most circles i ...As one of the more conservative in most circles i associate with, I often wonder when the day will dawn, that the rest of Christianity will be willing to concede conservatives have anything of value at all. I feel so continually talked down to and despised, that it does become a burden to accept and legitimize the excesses and disobedience of more progressive mindsets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-14156383105151851082015-04-12T18:22:30.697-04:002015-04-12T18:22:30.697-04:00Arthur, I want to thank you here for this post. Yo...Arthur, I want to thank you here for this post. Your insights and questions are helpful to those of us who are thinking from inside our Anabaptist heritage, but as members of Christ's church. You have spoken boldly, but with a boldness born of love. Thank you.Dwight Gingrichhttp://dwightgingrich.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-18661458348355267542015-04-12T08:52:52.915-04:002015-04-12T08:52:52.915-04:00There is a sense in which some conservative Anabap...There is a sense in which some conservative Anabaptists look with skepticism at the salvation claims of other Christians. I think a lot of this has to do with a general failing on their part collectively to flesh out their theology.<br /><br />Sometimes it seems almost as if the order is reversed. Rather than the Holy Spirit working to change the heart which leads to a change in life, they try to regulate the outward life in the assumption that this will lead to a changed heart. I don't think many would agree with that statement in principal but it certainly can tend to look that way in practice. Arthur Sidohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03848508095612688493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-50770721096567045912015-04-11T16:44:38.168-04:002015-04-11T16:44:38.168-04:00One other thing is that many in this conservative ...One other thing is that many in this conservative Anabaptist culture do question whether those outside of their own standards are Christian. Sure, they may believe there is a remnant outside of their own tradition and that has yet to come to full understanding of the Gospel of modest dress, etc. But as far as recognizing the whole body of other denominations as legitimate, I think many conservative Anabaptists would hesitate and even openly question it. In their own understanding, how could a person be a Christian and allow jewelry, loss of gender distinct clothing, etc. I think the problem goes deeper than distinctive or traditional dress, I think it starts much more fundamentally...<br /><br />Faith to them (and many other fundamentalist types) is something based in history and interpretation of a book into fixed positions. It is actually not at all a faith like that of Abraham, Moses, David or Paul. It is not a faith in God. It is faith in books, faith in institutions and faith in our own ability to know we are right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-6655962980689082032015-04-11T15:24:47.260-04:002015-04-11T15:24:47.260-04:00Focus on externals is definitely the weakness of m...Focus on externals is definitely the weakness of modern (conservative) interpretations of Anabaptism. However, it cannot be removed from a society that has excused all kinds of unrighteousness in the name of tolerance and love. It is also a response to a view of faith that does away with any need to modify behavior and celebrates God's grace like an excuse to continue on in sin. Unfortunately, prescriptions for outward appearance never do get to the heart of the issue and some who dress plainly relative to others are no less sinful under the veneer of 'appropriate attire' than their 'worldly' neighbors. Faith does change everything we do, but conforming to a church standard is not the same as transformed and full of the Spirit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com