tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post5662453711910785375..comments2023-06-09T12:46:12.932-04:00Comments on The Voice Of One Crying Out In Suburbia: Function trumps formArthur Sidohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03848508095612688493noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-69341344526585321402010-09-01T14:07:31.961-04:002010-09-01T14:07:31.961-04:00Alan,
The term "house church" has becom...Alan,<br /><br />The term "house church" has become something of a lightning rod, kind of like "emergent" or "reformed".Arthur Sidohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03848508095612688493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-92171012820288901172010-09-01T14:06:03.765-04:002010-09-01T14:06:03.765-04:00Tim,
I think you are finding offense where none w...Tim,<br /><br />I think you are finding offense where none was given or intended. It is pretty clear that I am quite sympathetic to the "house church" movement, so I don't really think anything I was saying was a slander of those groups. It was intended as a caution.Arthur Sidohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03848508095612688493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-27043033578484028262010-08-31T22:38:47.389-04:002010-08-31T22:38:47.389-04:00Arthur,
I also know of some "house church&qu...Arthur,<br /><br />I also know of some "house church" enthusiasts who teach that church must meet in houses. But, most of the house/simple/organic groups that I know about would not make that claim.<br /><br />Interestingly, I went to a workshop put on by NTRF a few years ago. They called it a "House Church Workshop." But, they didn't talk about meeting in houses at all. They mainly talked about function, like your post. So, I asked Steve Atkerson after the workshop why he called it a "House Church Workshop". He said they began calling it a "New Testament Church Workshop" (or something like that), but no one came to their workshop. When they changed the name to "House Church Workshop," the workshops starting filling up. I thought that was interesting...<br /><br />-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-82510770067167107652010-08-31T20:09:45.855-04:002010-08-31T20:09:45.855-04:00"The very name “house church” in terms of mov..."The very name “house church” in terms of movements and books indicates that the movement is focused on the form, i.e. the location."<br /><br />Bad assumption here. You are falsely making this dynamic out to be very shallow and contrived. I consider it a false witness. The movement uses many different names, precisely because of your quick assumption from the outside. If you can show me a line from a book or website that states meeting in a home and no where else is a key element of church I'll have to admit your accusation is correct, at least as far as that author is concerned. I don't think you can do it. Every book I have read says exactly the opposite of what you are claiming the movement believes. <br /><br />"We meet in modest, dedicated building. Is that wrong?"<br /><br />Of course not. The functions you mention are excellent.<br /><br />Our fellowship meets from house to house, but also in parks, etc. I call it 100% church due to key functions that are 100% instead of highly marginalized or almost completely ignored in institutionalized faith. <br /><br />Please do not deprecate a group of believers simply based on what they are frequently called and nothing else. Have substantive basis for your claims, specially if they are accusing of weakness.Tim Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099983903222184138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-74547473365418251472010-08-31T14:06:21.531-04:002010-08-31T14:06:21.531-04:00Tim,
The very name “house church” in terms of mov...Tim,<br /><br />The very name “house church” in terms of movements and books indicates that the movement is focused on the form, i.e. the location. I am not saying that this is wrong, I am saying that just because we meet in a house it doesn’t ensure Biblical community and meeting outside of a house, even in a traditional church building, doesn’t negate the possibility of Biblical community. <br /><br />The gathering of the church my wife and I attend has open participation. There is no clergy and no paid staff. We eat meals together every week and observe the Lord’s Supper every Sunday. However, we don’t meet in a house. We meet in modest, dedicated building. Is that wrong?<br /><br />I am all for meeting in homes for a number of reasons, but meeting in homes is not the goal.Arthur Sidohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03848508095612688493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-6309671091545518602010-08-31T02:37:47.684-04:002010-08-31T02:37:47.684-04:00"Form is irrelevant outside of how it either ..."Form is irrelevant outside of how it either supports or hampers Biblical community and that is partly the reason that so many conversations (i.e. arguments) about the church gathering go absolutely nowhere."<br /><br />Biblical community is pretty much everything. So now where is form irrelevant? There are many reasons why conversations about church gathering go no where, but it's not because forms have such little relevance in the lives of believers, it's more about blindly following traditions, lack of a Berean example, lack of experience in two-way communication, only knowing verses fed to saints by one man, etc. <br /><br />"My big concern with the house/simple church movement is that it sees the form as the end all and be all."<br />Any quotes on this one? I think this is a false accusation. Back it up or rethink your assertions. <br /><br />I think I'll stop there with my objections.Tim Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099983903222184138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-31723555230002932242010-08-31T02:37:19.175-04:002010-08-31T02:37:19.175-04:00"House church advocates can fall into the err..."House church advocates can fall into the erroneous assumption that you must meet in a house to have a Biblical meeting."<br /><br />I've read a lot of house church books and have never read anything like that. They usually say meeting in a home is not a key issue. Do you have one source and quote on this accusation? I think it's false.<br /><br />"Ultimately what we should be focusing on is not the form of the church meeting. That is not to say the form is unimportant but I am saying that the form question is a distant second to the question of how the local church body functions."<br /><br />You are tripping over yourself here. Form is not to be focused on but it is important? If a form is out of focus and not obeying God's instructions is it okay to focus on it till it's fixed? You are making a false separation between form and function. Every function has forms. If your form does not reflect function God asked for, then it needs fixing. I know a lot of saints claim they are not "forsaking the assembly" but they are clueless about the form God has given to what "assembly" is in that very verse. If some saints have a form that does not reflect the functions God asked for, then you may need to "focus" on it and fix it. It matters. It's an obedience and trust thing. Another key issue that is bigger than form and function that the NT spends lots of time on is identity. You are….a body, a family, living stones, etc. These identities call for functions and forms. Sometimes the NT gives some specifics to forms and sometimes not. When it's there, we need to honor and trust God's specifics. Otherwise we become like the Catholic church and many Protestant churches adapting, contextualizing and syncretizing what should be left as is.Tim Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099983903222184138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6643715.post-89082264367151829882010-08-30T23:13:47.317-04:002010-08-30T23:13:47.317-04:00I think this is one of the most edifying posts on ...I think this is one of the most edifying posts on this topic I, a somewhat long time lurker, have read here lately. This is THE issue, ultimately; and the thoughtfulness and grace with which you expressed your view here are much appreciated.<br /><br />Thank You,<br />DaveMyNameIsDavenoreply@blogger.com